Episode 11
Monk Secrets - Peace, Productivity & Happiness in a Busy World
This podcast episode features an enlightening discussion on the themes of mental wellness and mindfulness, with a particular emphasis on the concept of non-attachment as taught in Buddhism. Our esteemed guest, Kakumyo Lo, a dedicated practitioner at Dharma Rain Zen Center, shares profound insights into the practice of unattached effort and the importance of recognizing our habitual clinging to outcomes. He elucidates how cultivating awareness of our efforts can lead to greater emotional clarity and balance in our daily lives. The conversation further explores the relationship between effort and burnout, as well as the significance of embracing life's myriad experiences with equanimity. Through this dialogue, we aim to provide listeners with practical wisdom to navigate the complexities of modern existence while fostering a deeper understanding of their own minds and emotions.
The dialogue presented herein delves into the profound intricacies of mental wellness and the principles of mindfulness, as articulated by the esteemed guest Kakumyo Lo, a seasoned practitioner of Buddhist philosophy. The crux of the discussion centers on the concept of non-attachment, particularly in relation to desire and effort within the context of daily existence. Kakumyo elucidates that the practice of unattached effort necessitates a gradual realization of where one invests excessive energy, often leading to discomfort due to our clinging to specific outcomes. By fostering awareness of such tendencies, one can learn to release the grip around expectations, thus inviting a sense of ease and fluidity into their life.
Moreover, the conversation ventures into the often-misunderstood notion of self within Buddhism, exploring the paradox of 'no-self' (Anatta). Kakumyo articulates that while the experience of self is compelling and pervasive—shaped by our memories and anticipations—the deeper understanding reveals that this self is not a fixed entity but rather a collection of transient experiences. This insight encourages individuals to navigate their busy lives with a perspective that diminishes the weight of self-importance, ultimately leading to a more harmonious existence.
The discourse further emphasizes the cultivation of resilience and buoyancy amidst life’s tumultuous demands. Kakumyo proposes that celebrating small victories in daily interactions fosters a sense of lightness, enabling individuals to engage with life's challenges more gracefully. By embracing the trivial aspects of daily life, one can practice mindfulness in moments that are often overlooked, thus enhancing overall well-being. The episode concludes with an invitation to remain present and connected to the richness of life, even amid its inherent chaos, underscoring the importance of awareness over mere cognitive understanding.
Takeaways:
- Mental wellness and mindfulness are essential for achieving calm, clarity, and balance in life.
- Buddhism teaches the importance of non-attachment, particularly regarding desires and outcomes.
- Practicing awareness in daily life allows individuals to recognize and release attachments to trivial matters.
- The path to peace involves understanding the transient nature of self and experiences, which can enhance emotional resilience.
- Meditation is not strictly necessary for achieving mental clarity, as awareness and presence can also be cultivated in everyday moments.
- Embracing simplicity and being kind to oneself can lead to a more enjoyable and fulfilling existence.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Dharma Range Zen Center
- dharma rain
Transcript
Hello everyone and welcome back to Busy Free Mind.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Shobhna.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about mental wellness, mindfulness and simple ways to bring more calm, clarity and balance into your everyday life.
Speaker A:Each week we talk to experts who help us understand our minds better and take care of our emotional well being in a practical, meaningful way.
Speaker A:Today we have a very special guest whose life is rooted in spiritual practice and service.
Speaker A:I'm so honored to welcome Kakumyo Lo.
Speaker A:A part of Dharma Range Zen Center.
Speaker A: acticing at dharma rain since: Speaker A:He has played a vital role in the temple's operations and community life and dedicating himself completely to Buddhist practice.
Speaker A:I'm truly excited to have him here today to share his wisdom, experience and insights with all of us.
Speaker A:Let's dive in.
Speaker A:Hello Kakumyo, how are you?
Speaker B:Good morning, Shmana.
Speaker A:Good morning.
Speaker B:I'm doing well.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker A:We are really honored.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:So before I ask my first question, we want to know the basic thing Buddhism teaches non attachment, especially when it comes to desire and effort.
Speaker A:So what is the simplest way to practice unattached effort in daily life?
Speaker B:The simplest way, I think, you know, really it's a gradual process of noticing where we are putting in effort.
Speaker B:Like, like too much.
Speaker B:Where we're, where we're clenching around some outcome or some belief that it needs to be a certain way or, and, and just notice that like, ouch, like that's uncomfortable and, and it could be otherwise.
Speaker B:I could release that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So if I have no self like Anatta, then who am I?
Speaker B:Yeah, that, like that question doesn't have a great answer.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because if it did, then, then it wouldn't be there.
Speaker B:So we have the experience.
Speaker B:You know, it, it feels like I'm here and I had stuff that happened to me yesterday.
Speaker B:I'm planning things that are going to happen to me tomorrow.
Speaker B:That's a very credible, like it feels very.
Speaker B:Obvious.
Speaker B:And I've also had plenty of experiences that have showed me that that's not the way it is.
Speaker B:And so both, both impact me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like I go through the week as if there's this self, but I also try to be informed by deeper perspectives that show me that really there's nothing to protect here.
Speaker A:How do we get that understanding in the busy life when we are thinking so many things in our mind, when we have so many obligations and responsibilities?
Speaker A:How can we come into that perspective of mind that I have no self, I don't have to attach with anything.
Speaker A:It's really tough, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I think it's.
Speaker B:It's similar to.
Speaker B:The first one is you.
Speaker B:You just catch the cells that are there.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's a lot of repetition and.
Speaker B:And a little bit of, like, grace, you know, just like, you know, at some point, like, there's a pivot that really matters.
Speaker B:But mostly what we're doing is lots of catching, like, trivial selves.
Speaker B:Like, you know, like, I just don't like it, the way that person says that thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, it just, like, it gets under my skin a little bit and like, oh, oh, great.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's a little attachment.
Speaker B:That's something I could.
Speaker B:Like, I don't have to be that person.
Speaker B:I don't have to mind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it would be more pleasant to not mind.
Speaker B:And so what if I.
Speaker B:What if I just release that particular thought, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Just in the moment, it may come back, which is fine.
Speaker B:But like, you, in this moment, I could.
Speaker B:I could soften around it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it.
Speaker A:It comes with practice.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How can I add buoyancy, like lightness and resilience to my busy life?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think one thing I would say there is, like, that we really celebrate the little successes.
Speaker B:And so I'm.
Speaker B:I'm giving examples.
Speaker B:Like, you know, this person says something I didn't.
Speaker B:You know, like, they.
Speaker B:They pronounced the word funny or whatever.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I didn't like it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's meaningless.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's very small.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's a very.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:But if we practice with those, we can feel like we a.
Speaker B:We can win.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's an amount of karma pushing on that that I can probably deal with my relationship to my mom in a heated conversation.
Speaker B:Maybe I win that, maybe I don't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, maybe I have the wherewithal to practice with that, with karma gracefully.
Speaker B:Or maybe I don't.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:It's more charged.
Speaker B:You know, things that are like.
Speaker B:That's just harder to do.
Speaker B:And so I would say really admit the little things.
Speaker B:Really, like, embrace the trivial daily life stuff and say, ah, I want to.
Speaker B:I want to do that well.
Speaker B:I want to practice with clarity in that moment, in those.
Speaker B:In those throwaway moments.
Speaker B:Because when I do it, I feel better.
Speaker B:And that's where this sense of buoyancy comes from.
Speaker B:You know, we're buoyant because we're lifted, like, all over.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:All those little moments count.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like being kind to ourselves.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So what is the number one rule for living peacefully with others?
Speaker B:Yeah, don't believe your thoughts.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, like, like, if I'm.
Speaker B:I came into this.
Speaker B:Anger was a real obstacle for me.
Speaker B:You know, 30 years ago.
Speaker B:That was my hurdle.
Speaker B:And what I found was that, like, I got angry because of an interpretation, you know, something that I told myself about usually why someone did something or why I didn't.
Speaker B:You know, like, I could be angry at myself too, but, like, often other people and, you know, I'm not a mission, right?
Speaker B:Like, I don't really know.
Speaker B:And so to just like, I. I gave myself this practice of if I ever felt anywhere along the continuum, whether it was irritation, frustration, resentment, anger, fury, whatever, anywhere along there.
Speaker B:To come up with alternative explanations.
Speaker B:So maybe somebody cuts me off on the road and they're a jerk, right?
Speaker B:That's an easy, easy one to jump to, right?
Speaker B:If you live in Sacramento, you do want a lot of traffic, but maybe that person is on their way to the hospital and they've got someone bleeding out in the backseat.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so to just, like, it's.
Speaker B:It's just a reminder for myself that it could be otherwise.
Speaker B:And, and the thing is, like, just knowing that there's other possibilities, it makes, it makes it less scary.
Speaker B:I'm less impacted by it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When life is overwhelming, how can I try hard without burning out?
Speaker B:I would say.
Speaker B:Like, don't try from up here, but try from, like, down.
Speaker B:Like, in the gut.
Speaker B:Like, we're.
Speaker B:I want people to try, right?
Speaker B:I want people to, like, Like, I actually want effort in life.
Speaker B:I want commitment.
Speaker B:I want dedication.
Speaker B:I want determination.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, all of that can be wholesome and is necessary for deep practice.
Speaker B:Also, of course, a lot of that can get misused and contorted and whatnot.
Speaker B:So it's really staying connected to why I'm doing it.
Speaker B:And I may have reasons for it that I can tell and describe and argue for.
Speaker B:And, and if I'm doing that, if it feels very verbal and cognitive, then I'm more at risk for it being effort in the sense of tight.
Speaker B:And that takes more energy.
Speaker B:And I'm more likely to burn out if I can notice that.
Speaker B:Okay, there is that verbal explanation and this is why it has to happen, and here are the reasons and the circumstances and.
Speaker B:Etc, etc.
Speaker B:And there's a deeper purpose.
Speaker B:Like, there is something moving through me that, like, that wants this to happen.
Speaker B:I can kind of feel at a.
Speaker B:At a core, at a need level why this counts, right?
Speaker B:Like, because I care because this person's hurting, because, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:Like there's something basic, like if I had to tell this to a 4 year old, like it's, it's that kind of language, like really simple, it's obvious, you know, So I want to, I want to feel that, like, somatically I want to like actually like land that sort of deep sense of why I'm doing this.
Speaker A:What is the most surprising benefit of meditation that, that you think.
Speaker A:Because many people say that though, even though I do meditation, I couldn't get my mind calm, I couldn't get my stress out.
Speaker A:So what is the most surprising benefit of meditation other than like calming your mind?
Speaker B:I think a lot of people have the idea that meditation, like, with good meditation, there's a lot less thought.
Speaker B:And, and if you're doing it right, you know, you're not thinking, you're, you're very still, you're very like the mind is quiet.
Speaker B:And I would say that that might be the case, but it doesn't depend on that.
Speaker B:And in my experience, sometimes it's like that and sometimes it's not.
Speaker B:And both can be really productive.
Speaker B:And my life changed dramatically long before I could.
Speaker B:I had the concentration to really still the mind and become quiet with my thought.
Speaker B:And so I think, you know, the surprising thing there is that a.
Speaker B:It doesn't depend on silence in terms of our thoughts.
Speaker B:But we really get to know ourselves better.
Speaker B:And I think we like, often we kind of have this like, story of who we are, but it's really a caricature.
Speaker B:And if we're watching kind of moment by moment, like, it's very humbling, but it's also like, wow, it's so much useful information.
Speaker B:If I actually know what all this is like, I can pilot through the world so much easier.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:If I'm honest about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How does fighting or feelings cause suffering?
Speaker A:And what is the simple way to stop resisting that?
Speaker B:Well, I think, yeah, resisting anything is suffering.
Speaker B:So if, if there's an emotion that is aversive fear or jealousy or anger that doesn't feel good, there's an impulse probably to distract or to numb or to, you know, somehow create some separation, explain it, you know, instead of just feeling it.
Speaker B:And the, the downside to those strategies is that all of them will extend the life of that negative emotion because it's like basically it's there for a purpose.
Speaker B:It's trying to let us know something.
Speaker B:And if we're not letting that information in at a level that counts, it keeps Trying.
Speaker B:And so it's much faster to turn towards it.
Speaker B:Clarity with stillness, with a high level of awareness, have the aversive experience.
Speaker B:And then watch as it goes away.
Speaker B:Which, which will happen when we, when we land something with a certain amount of presence, it changes.
Speaker B:It's guaranteed it will change.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think all this thing takes that our perception of mind completely to change from what we are thinking now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What is the biggest myth about Buddhism that you want to correct?
Speaker A:We want to know, is it possible for the Buddhist monks to be calm and peaceful all the time?
Speaker A:Do they have ups and downs in the monk life?
Speaker A:Do they come out of their peace segment and get angry?
Speaker A:So what is the biggest myth that we.
Speaker A:That you want to.
Speaker B:Yeah, so especially for that, the second question, what I would say is, like, there's definitely ups and downs.
Speaker B:I find, like, you know, 30 years of practice later, life is, Is more intense.
Speaker B:You know, like, it's more like I'm, I'm closer to it.
Speaker B:I'm like, like I'm, I'm not defended from it.
Speaker B:And so like, wow, like, it's really a lot.
Speaker B:But I, but I like that, you know, like, I, I choose that.
Speaker B:And I think there's also like, an evenness to how I meet that, you know, I'm not, I'm not going through it.
Speaker B:That's stoic and like, like, not, not being impacted.
Speaker B:I want to be impacted, but I also want to, like, know who I am.
Speaker B:I want, I want to stay in touch with what's real as, as that happens.
Speaker B:I don't want to be swept away, you know, by the like, intensity of life.
Speaker B:So I, I feel like there's often people imagine that if you're, you know, doing a lot of meditation or you're very enlightened or whatever.
Speaker B:People imagine that.
Speaker B:It'S.
Speaker B:That you just don't feel it, but that's not it at all.
Speaker B:You feel just goes right through.
Speaker B:It's very impactful, but.
Speaker B:But you're not disturbed by feeling it.
Speaker A:Know how to process those emotions?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I think the biggest, if I, if I had to say one misconception that I wish was different for people is that this idea that like, enlightenment is something that someone possesses, right.
Speaker B:That like, you have an experience, then you've got it and it's yours and you can.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:Like, it just, it's.
Speaker B:It's a permanent thing, which is not like that.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's emergent in situation.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It arises and falls.
Speaker B:It's is more Of a gradient.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But this is my personal question.
Speaker A:When you see things without any attachment.
Speaker A:Wouldn'T they miss their fun in their life?
Speaker A:You wouldn't get attached for the effort or, I mean, the result.
Speaker A:Wouldn't you miss the fun in life if everything is new?
Speaker B:That's not my experience.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I, I, I feel like.
Speaker B:You know, I'm, I, I do pretty well with equanimity.
Speaker B:Like, like, I, I'm, you know, I certainly will resist my experience at times.
Speaker B:I'll, I'll fight life here and there, but largely I'm, I'm really open to quite aversive experiences happening.
Speaker B:And, and, and I get to also celebrate a lot of really pleasant experiences happening.
Speaker B:And that's, yeah, like, that.
Speaker B:It doesn't feel numb.
Speaker B:It doesn't feel right.
Speaker B:Dispassionate.
Speaker B:It feels like rich.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, so there's definitely a remove.
Speaker B:There's definitely, like, a renunciation of.
Speaker B:It's centering on me, but there's not.
Speaker B:I'm apart from life.
Speaker B:It's not like that.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:I think that's a, that's one of those, like, misconceptions that, like, well, it must add, but, but that's not actually how it, how it feels.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Hopefully.
Speaker B:I think, I think that's something that some people kind of idealize.
Speaker B:Oh, this is so much work.
Speaker B:This is so much suffering.
Speaker B:Like, I don't, I want to transcend that.
Speaker B:I want to get past that.
Speaker B:I don't want to play in this messy playground.
Speaker B:I want to be in some rarefied spiritual realm instead.
Speaker B:And that's not my take.
Speaker B:I said, like, I want to be in this messy playground because, like, that's where all the, like, juice is.
Speaker B:That's where, like, that's how I learn fastest.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Do I have to meditate to get the benefits of the practice?
Speaker A:Because in this Hariburi world, people often find time for themselves to sit in a calm place, calm their mind.
Speaker A:So do I have to meditate?
Speaker A:Is it mandatory to get my mind calm?
Speaker B:I don't think so.
Speaker B:I think the, like, I think it's very helpful, but I don't think it's a tool that works for everybody.
Speaker B:And I think there's lots of tools that could be helpful.
Speaker B:And so it's really a matter of.
Speaker B:Like, for each individual life, like, what fits, what works for you.
Speaker B:And I think having a real sense of curiosity around that, creativity around that is, is helpful.
Speaker B:I'd much, I'd rather someone, you know, sit for, like, three minutes a day Than, you know, an hour, twice a week.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I. I want those, like, little reminders that, like, there's something more important than, like, my conception of my life, you know, even if it's like, you know, two minutes in the morning, 90 seconds, whatever, where you're just, like, being still.
Speaker B:Maybe you're.
Speaker B:That's when you drink your tea or before you turn on the car or whatever.
Speaker B:Whatever's happening.
Speaker B:Like, oh, there's something more important than my to do list and my fears and my hopes and my whatever.
Speaker B:There's something more important.
Speaker B:I don't know what it is, but there's.
Speaker B:There's a reason I'm not doing anything right now.
Speaker B:And I feel like giving ourself that message frequently during the day is really helpful.
Speaker B:And so that doesn't depend on meditation.
Speaker B:That just depends on some awareness and remembering and willingness to kind of pause.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What you're saying is rather than one hour of sitting and doing meditation, you can have.
Speaker A:20 to 32 minutes of presence in the moment.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I love meditation.
Speaker B:I think it's very useful.
Speaker B:I sit for several hours a day.
Speaker B:Like, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:But I don't think.
Speaker B:But I'm also an odd duck.
Speaker B:I don't think that's for everybody.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:True, true.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:How do I get detached from my need for money and success when it is.
Speaker A:Which is when it is very essential for running life?
Speaker A:How can I detach myself from those.
Speaker B:You know, like, recognize that it's provisional.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's something that you have to deal with.
Speaker B:And so don't hate it.
Speaker B:Don't resist it.
Speaker B:It's practical.
Speaker B:Like, we, you know, we have to eat, we have to earn money.
Speaker B:We have to deal with gravity.
Speaker B:It's like the basics of how the kind of the world is set up.
Speaker B:And we can, you know, argue with it.
Speaker B:It may not be our favorite, but absent really drastic change, like, that's kind of how it is.
Speaker B:So just kind of a practicality around that.
Speaker B:There's, you know, noticing the range of sensation that shows up.
Speaker B:Like, sometimes you may encounter it's frustration, and sometimes it's grief, and sometimes it's embarrassment and something.
Speaker B:And just to notice that, like, wow, there's this whole spectrum of selves that show up in relation.
Speaker B:I have to earn money to, like, survive, and it's somehow dissociating, not in tune with how I want it to be.
Speaker B:Be like, wow, that's really rich.
Speaker B:And, like, I don't want people to just, like, spiritually bypass that and Explain it away.
Speaker B:And I want people to, like, develop wisdom around that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know why I asked that question is like, even if you set a goal for money and success, and if you attain it at the time, you know, you feel like, it feels good and I want more.
Speaker A:I want more success, I want more money.
Speaker A:It keeps on growing.
Speaker A:It never ends.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So, okay, So I agree.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So how do I stop feeling like I'm the main character of the world?
Speaker A:Because we always talk about my opinion.
Speaker A:What I am saying is, my viewpoint is I'm getting angry.
Speaker A:How can I stop feeling that I, like I'm the main character in the world?
Speaker B:I think that's part of, like, what's great about meditation is we see how many different selves inhabit here.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:We sort of imagine that there's this immutable, like, coherent entity, but actually, like, it's so situational who we are, and it changes so much over time.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:As.
Speaker B:As we get really clear about that, it's.
Speaker B:It's easier to be less selfish and right.
Speaker B:So I think that's.
Speaker B:That's one thing.
Speaker B:The other thing is just noticing others and, and like, when we reduce people to, you know, like, the functions or objects or whatever, it's.
Speaker B:That's a way of keeping the story about me, like, how I relate to them.
Speaker B:But, like, if we let them be also situational, changing dynamic, like arisings of phenomena, like, wow, that's really interesting.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like it's not something, a surprise, and it's a challenge to perceive that.
Speaker B:And like, that sharpens us, that brings us into a higher, like, level of presence.
Speaker B:I want that.
Speaker B:I want to go through the world with a lot of awareness.
Speaker B:So I want to see people as, you know, kind of mysterious.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So would you say, do we have to isolate ourselves from the society, from the chaos in the world to understand ourselves?
Speaker A:Or we have to mingle with the society so that we forget ourselves and think about others?
Speaker B:I think there's different traditions that would choose, you know, like, the left or the right path.
Speaker B:I would like Soto Zen, you know, Mahayana Buddhism in general definitely tilts towards the.
Speaker B:Yeah, we have to be part of this world.
Speaker B:You know, there's a responsibility.
Speaker B:It would feel pretty small to be doing this just for my own gratification.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What is your one piece of advice for someone feeling lost and overwhelmed?
Speaker B:Like, there's just.
Speaker B:There's so much beauty and let it.
Speaker B:Let it affect you.
Speaker B:Like, let that.
Speaker B:Give yourself opportunities to be reminded just how precious this is.
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be like, you know, in a beautiful place, like you just have, we just have to kind of like land and allow.
Speaker A:So tell us, how can we lead our normal life and also we can follow some monk life in our life.
Speaker A:Like, any tips?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I, I've lived at this temple for 30 years.
Speaker B:I, I work here as my full time job, but you know, like, I bike around the city for errands and stuff.
Speaker B:I'm like, I have, I have worldly pursuits.
Speaker B:I'm a, I'm an acrobat in a local circus.
Speaker B:I, there's a lot of like administration.
Speaker B:I deal with spreadsheets and Excel and QuickBooks and you know, I get 50 emails a day.
Speaker B:Like there's a lot of stuff that goes into being a monk that is just the same as in any other life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so yes, I, I, I live in community.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Like I follow a schedule.
Speaker B:You know, there's certain things, but.
Speaker B: ike it's, I live in Oregon in: Speaker B:It's complicated.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wraps up my final question for today.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Kakumbyo.
Speaker A:This was such an insightful conversation and viewers, thank you so much for connecting with us on Busy Free Mind.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and share it who might appreciate it.
Speaker A:Take care and bye bye.
